Episode 40: Emotional Intelligence and it’s impact on your life
October 11, 2021
Do you have emotional intelligence? Do you know what it is? Trudi was a little lost so, so for this season's finale, we got in the amazing Ush Dhanak, one of Australia’s leading experts on Emotional Intelligence and the CEO of Emotional Quotient (EQ) Academy to enlighten her. Ush spends much of her time going into her corporates and developing EQ within the leaders of the business and teaching how this can improve the business environment and business outcomes. In this episode we challenge you not to chuckle at Trudi's special comments while Sarah and Ush talk us through what is emotional intelligence and why it is important both at work as well as in our daily lives. Emotional intelligence can be defined in many ways, but at its core it is "the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.'' Ush explains to us why this is important and how it can improve the job performance of yourself and your employees. We also talk about some of the other benefits of understand EQ and some tools on how you can understand and develop your own EQ.
Think this is all woo woo? We challenge you to listen in and see if you can take away even just one thing that could improve your interactions with others. (Trudi got off the call with Ush and straight away googled an EQ test!)
You can learn more about Ush @ https://eq.academy/
Podcast Transcript Available Here
Duration: 29:18
Sarah Eifermann: Welcome to today's episode of Financial FOFU I'm Sarah Eifermann. Trudi Cowan: And I'm Trudi Cowan. Sarah Eifermann: And today we have an amazing guest for our season finale. We are talking, emotional intelligence today with Ush Dhanak. Ush Dhanak: Hi, thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, well, it's Melbourne to Sydney today, which is amazing, we're covering most of these so that's not too bad. I really wanted to talk about emotional intelligence. My Word of the Year this year is conscious communication. Trudi's was balance, so we thought it would be a great opportunity to bring a little-known concept to a bit of a broader audience. Ush Dhanak: Yeah. Excellent. Sarah Eifermann: Now, most people have no idea what emotional intelligence is per se, can you give us a breakdown, Ush Dhanak: Yeah absolutely so look there's, you might have heard of the term EQ, which is probably a bit more familiar to people than probably the word emotional intelligence. So just to clarify EQ is a measure of your emotional intelligence just like IQ is a measure of your intellect. Yeah, it's awesome, and then if we talk about actually what emotional intelligence is, in a nutshell. It's your ability to manage your emotions, and the keyword is in the moment. Okay, use that information to have better relationships to understand people better around you. And I really wanted to touch on that in the moment piece because I think we've all had that, you know, moment where we've acted like a psycho. And then, you know if I should have done that, you know, that's not right EQ, that's probably self-reflection skills. But you know what I always tell people is EQ is in that moment that you want to chop something you want to like, you know, really lose your shit. Are we allowed to swear, probably not? Trudi Cowan: Yeah. Our podcast has a swearing disclaimer on it so it's okay. Ush Dhanak: And it's actually in that moment going, being able to go right, I'm actually feeling this, and I'm gonna choose to respond differently, rather than do my default reaction. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, so our season one finale was based on the audio and video that I prepared called Trapped, where I was actually stuck in Peru last year, and if you haven't listened to that, or watch YouTube I really recommend it because these two tie in together very nicely. One of the main themes of that experience was about learning to respond rather than react to what's going on around you. I'm really pleased that you raised that because I think it's so important so easily when we're triggered, that's the new buzzword, and then we react rather than respond, we don't think through what comes out of our mouth. Ush Dhanak: Exactly. And it's interesting, like when I was teaching this and actually when I was 12 this I'll take a step back, my coach was like alright Ush you know for 21 days I want you to write down seven or eight times during the day the emotions that you feel I'm like oh that's easy like is that all I need to do to become more, even more, EQ, that's the starting point, and he's like if you've missed a day, get back to day one. Anyway, by the end of day three I'd run out of emotions. A cold-hearted bitch. And I was hangry that it kept coming up a lot. I don't even think that's an emotion but anyway. Trudi Cowan: I beg to differ, I definitely think it's an emotion. Ush Dhanak: It was really hard to do, and I think that the key takeaway there and I, you know, I teach this a lot is how emotional vocabulary is not great. So if we actually communicate just to ourselves and our own body, what emotion we're feeling it's really hard to tap into that and deal with that emotion and then actually improve our behavior. We should look at something called the emotions wheel. If you just put it into Google, you will actually get to see a range of emotions and then different words for those emotions so once I looked at the emotions wheel I'm like okay actually now I can articulate, you know what it is that I feel. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, I mean completely I mean Trudi's frantically googling at the moment trying to get on top of it, but I am familiar with the concepts of emotions wheel, and in a previous episode we have actually talked about the need when talking with money, where and behaviors with children that we need to talk about it. I think the same adage applies here that if we don't have the words, and we don't engage in the behavior, how do we ever improve this? Ush Dhanak: Absolutely, yeah. And I think the second point to touch on that is, you know, really linking. And this is sort of the next stage of EQ when you understand it is, if I feel X emotion, What is my Y behavior, you're doing now is you're really able to connect the behavior to the emotion and really raise your awareness of what it is that's happening so you know if you feel frustrated is your default behavior to withdraw, is it to lash out. Is it to even overeat? Is it to not sleep like, what is it that you're doing that links to that emotion. And then the third step is really just the understanding that it's okay to feel those emotions right so you guys might have heard that you were not your emotions. Yeah. So you know, if you feel anger doesn't mean that you're an angry person, it means that you are a human being that experiences the emotion of anger. Yeah, I love that because I'm like wow okay maybe I'm not a cold-hearted angry bitch all the time. I was dealing with all that stuff before I was more EQ. Trudi Cowan: Right, yeah, I think it's the awareness though, to be aware of how you're feeling and what you're feeling. Yeah, oppose having no knowledge of either of those two things. Ush Dhanak: Exactly. And it's the acceptance of it as well and you know I like the analogy, there are two analogies that I'll share because I think it sticks in people's minds, is that it's like if you're watching the play you know you're gonna have act one scene one and you're gonna get all different characters if you imagine those different characters are emotions, and then they're gonna go off the stage and act one scene two will come with different characters representing emotions. And that's what makes the plate interesting, that's what makes our lives, to really experience that and know that no matter what emotion is, it is going to shift. You know when you're sitting in it, it might not feel like it but it does shift and it's like the other analogy is the sky so you know, if you imagine yourself as a sky as constant whether it's day or night and that's going to be storms, it's going to be sun and rain and hail but the sky is the sky right it's neutral. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah. Well, it would be remiss of me to not ask you where or what your background is, or was sorry right tense helps, and why emotional intelligence came to the forefront with you. Ush Dhanak: Yeah, so my background is I'm a lawyer and barrister. Okay, which I genuinely had no EQ. And I remember I quit my job and literally had a moment of, I don't want to work for anyone anymore. And I, Trudi Cowan: We've all been there. Ush Dhanak: I actually followed it through in the middle of the day with no plan B. I quit my job and came home to watch daytime Dr. Phil or Oprah or something. What am I gonna do with my life? And then someone said, Maybe you should hire a coach. I'm like yeah that's a good start, I'll just invest money that I don't have into the coach, yep, did that and then one of the components of my coaching was EQ. And let me just do a bit of a test to see where I am around my own awareness of myself and others and it was actually really low, but I promise you guys I've worked on it before I teach it so you're in safe hands. Sarah Eifermann: I think it's a common thing that we think that's probably quite good but when you do some testing, you go, Oh crap. Ush Dhanak: Yeah, exactly. So that's sort of my background and then for the last five years, I've been running EQ Academy, the founder of the business. And we literally go into organizations for a period of 12 months and work with the leadership team to really help raise their awareness, and also do one-on-one coaching. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, amazing. So, in those sorts of scenarios, is it just for business relationships, or do they get value in their personal life as well? Ush Dhanak: Oh yeah 100% I think my daughter's like Mom, you're such a nicer human being now. Trudi Cowan: Wow, that's amazing for an 11-year-old to come up with, so she's obviously recognizing the benefits. Ush Dhanak: Exactly. No, you'll definitely notice the benefits and I think the main benefit is that look for me I can't talk for everyone, but for me is that I'm more at peace with who I am. And that's been the biggest thing and I don't tend to react as much, and it depends on some of the jobs that we do like I know that you know as a barista we're conditioned to think on our feet, we're conditioned to be argumentative. Yeah, I remember my ex going can't we just have a conversation without it being like a cross-examination? Trudi Cowan: No we can't. Ush Dhanak: I learn how to fight like I'm going to leverage those skills. So for me it's just, yeah, I think just understanding myself better for sure has been the biggest impact, but then once you understand yourself better you actually pick up on the emotions of those around you. And that actually helps you build better relationships and it makes you a nicer person to be around. Trudi Cowan: When you go into these large organizations to teach EQ, what do the businesses want to get out of it? Ush Dhanak: Yeah, so look, most of the businesses we go into, You know, the leadership they get all of the technical training right. Yeah. Or it's a given that you can technically do your job. I think the bit that we don't learn and we don't really learn it enough in schools and things like that either is how do we have a human-to-human connection or conversation. How do we listen empathetically? How do we show compassion in our leadership style, how do we have really difficult conversations. Without it, you know being taken personally and get our message across properly. So they're the sorts of things, you know, I guess it's just exercising the other side of your brain that sometimes we don't get to do in the workplace. Trudi Cowan: Yes, especially when they are very technically driven sort of roles. Sarah Eifermann: Do we think that our emotional intelligence as a society has declined, or that with the advent of technology and social media and the way we communicate now in terms of devices and instant gratification that we have forgotten how to communicate. Ush Dhanak: Yeah, I think it's a bit of both. I think it's hard to make a generic statement across the board, but I think definitely over the last few years, people know what emotional intelligence is. Whereas I know when I started my business five years ago. As it is, you know it's really hard to sell anything when you start a business, let alone something that people go What the hell is this?'' Whereas now, it's like oh okay, EQ yes, we want to teach this we want to learn this, we want to have more access to this I think the awareness is there of what EQ is. But I do think it's something that we are all increasing and it's also in the media more like you know, loads of people in the media have you've seen now that display more emotional intelligence is talked about so like Shane Fitzsimmons you know when we had all of those bushfires and things like that in the media and he was portrayed to be you know, this amazing male leader that displayed EQ and vulnerability, but also had a real sense of calm around him. So I think we're seeing more people in the media in the public eye that are displaying this and I call it the X-Factor. I think we've all had someone in our lives that we go to, man, I don't know why I really like them or why I'm connected with them. But they've made a difference in my life, and 99% of the time, the reason they've made a difference or you feel connected is that they are high in EQ. Trudi Cowan: Yes, that's actually really interesting. Sarah Eifermann: It's really true. I could tell you that I could pinpoint the people in my life that had higher EQ. Yeah, it made a difference in my life. Ush Dhanak: And I'll share a little sneaky sales thing that I do when I was selling my programs. I go into a room, and it could be you know, for example, the CEO and I say to them right on everyone in the room on a piece of paper a post-it note, write down one word per post-it note on the qualities that you admire in someone. So everyone does that you know the right three or four things on a post-it note and then I say, Okay, on the left-hand side of the room is IQ, on the right-hand side of the room is EQ and I go put your post-it note, in relation to where it sits on the IQ or EQ and 99.999% of the time, all of the post-it notes are on the side of the EQ wall. Trudi Cowan: Yeah, that'd be a fun test to run. Sarah Eifermann: Trudi is thinking of all these tests that she can run with different clients, she's got Trudi Cowan: My previous role I haven't done that sort of exercise that would have ended up. Ush Dhanak: It's really interesting because I know they're good listeners, they're compassionate and they're available. No one says they're great at Excel and are technically amazing, which is why I admire them. Trudi Cowan: It's so true. Ush Dhanak: And the point there is, what if this is all the traits that you admire in these people that you're thinking of why are we not teaching it, and then I literally just walk out the room and then they call me and go oh my god, That's amazing. Can you come and teach us? Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, yeah. So, it's becoming more popular and people are becoming aware of it, I suppose my question was more around the point of, do we think that we're lacking it more as a society now than ever or have the way we communicate it changed so much that is becoming more obvious that we need it, which is why it's becoming more popular? Ush Dhanak: Yeah I think it's become more apparent like you know we've got AI the increase of AI, artificial intelligence, we've got lots more like you know those chatbots, you know, loads of things now if we read we don't even need to talk to a human right, things can be done pretty easily. So it is a reminder that we need to keep this skill of connection, like, we're gonna be able to get away from having a conversation, human to human in our lives and our friends and our families so absolutely and I think also I teach kids the value of EQ as well, and the importance of it to go in schools, you can learn about IQ, but really, how do we measure if you're really good mate to someone. How do you know if you have a friend, or when you leave school, how do you know that you've done the right thing, that's not about IQ, that's all about? So I'm just Yeah, raising the awareness of it and I think, you know, in society we are getting better at it and I think we are aware that we need to be better. Trudi Cowan: How can we test our own EQ to know where we sort of sit on that scale and whether we need to do some education? Ush Dhanak: Yeah, good question. So there are loads of like you know EQ tests that you can do online that will give you a bit of a sense but the interesting thing with EQ is it's a self-assessment so you are actually answering the questions based on where you are at any moment in time, as opposed to an IQ test right which asks you set of questions about your intelligence so it really is the answers are within, I think if you just have some self-reflective questions, and I'm happy to share a list and you guys can send it out or attach it. Trudi Cowan: Yeah amazing. Yeah. Ush Dhanak: You just literally ask yourself those you journal that or you meditate on it you will get the answers as to where you sit and I think we all know right if we really ask ourselves deep down. Are we good listeners? Are we good communicators, do we help the people, are we empathetic? Are we aware of how we feel, do we react, do we not, we do know the answer. Trudi Cowan: Yeah, that's true. Just taking that time to reflect on yourself. Sarah Eifermann: And be honest with yourself. Trudi Cowan: Yes, yeah, that's a key part because it's so easy to delude yourself sometimes, of course, I do all those things. Ush Dhanak: Yeah, and I think out of the self-reflection, there's something called shadow work that happens as well. There's something that happened with me when I did it because I went through a phase of going oh my god I'm a really bad human being. I thought I was this person but actually wasn't and I was just my own, you know, self-reflection, and what that shadow work does is it brings about some of those fears and old conditioning and paradigms that we've got that make us think well actually we behave this way is because of the way we're conditioned, right, absolutely, by our parents or communities or society. Trudi Cowan: Or experiences that we have. Ush Dhanak: Yeah experiences, the process of Shadow Work is actually almost healing some of that trauma that we've gone through to go. I can do that work and now I've come out on the other side as someone that is more emotionally intelligent so some people go it's really woo-woo when it's you know it's all soft skills, but it actually isn't as, you know, working on yourself, to raise your EQ is one of the hardest things to do. It really is. Sarah Eifermann: I mean, often when we do business planning and coaching work with my clients, it's very hard to set the goals that they are looking for or the lifestyle that they're trying to achieve because they haven't done that shadow work. Yeah, and that emotional intelligence plays a massive part in them being able to set themselves up for success in their business because they know what they want to achieve and what's fulfilling for them. And I suppose, often I say to people with the shadow work to be aware that people think Shadow Work is bad because the shadow naturally has some sort of a negative connotation to it, but the night sky is a shadow, and you can't see the stars without the dark, without the night. Yeah, it's the same thing in here if you want to get the great jewels of who you are in your personality to the forefront, you need the shadow work to achieve it. Trudi Cowan: Just in case any of our listeners are sitting where I am. What is Shadow Work? Ush Dhanak: Shadow work is where you understand that you can do things better, but you then understand that there are parts of your history or past that have made you behave the way you have. So I'll give you a really good example talking about money actually so your point there was, I remember when I was selling the business stuff I wasn't able to charge what I thought I was worth. Yeah, and that was because of my own paradigms around money and things I heard my parents say as you know, money doesn't grow on trees and, you know, don't trust people that are rich and wealthy and you know you can't be a kind person and have money, all these sorts of stuff that you know that I grew up with and going or whatever but it seeps into my subconscious mind. So what happens is we behave in a certain way because of the subconscious programming that we've got within us. So shadow work is really going to the source or root of why we behave the way we do. And then doing the work too, if I can swear unfuck yourself. Trudi Cowan: Yeah, well, Financial FOFU which is the fear of fucking up, unfucking yourself sounds like the perfect pathway forward. Ush Dhanak: That's what shadow work is Trudi in a nutshell. Trudi Cowan: Perfect. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, it's not commonly known, but I mean it's pretty much about the perception of life, and how that then affects everything, and that's the subconscious bias that then impacts all of your decisions. So that's why emotional intelligence, I personally believe, is a massive part of who you are, and living a life, I think you said earlier, is a much more peaceful life, isn't you? Ush Dhanak: Yeah, it's a sense of peace that you get when you go. You know what I am in this moment in time, the best version of me. And yes, you make mistakes but I've worked to be the best version of myself and my thing has always been faith over fear. And it's that case I'm going to have faith in myself to become better, to be more emotionally aware, to be a better human and make an impact on others and not let fear get in the way. Because what happens is as you raise your EQ and you do shadow work, you are gonna step into fear. I keep reminding myself that the acronym of fear is just false evidence appearing real. Right, that's what it is. Trudi Cowan: Oh I love that, it’s so good. Ush Dhanak: Yeah, and I remind myself that it's just false evidence so that like okay this false evidence, what's happened there is my subconscious is bringing up a memory where I've made a mistake, and it's causing my current situation to be fearful of. But actually, I've done so much but I don't need to have those past experiences lead, or make an impact on the way that I do things moving forwards. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, old pattern, not required anymore. Ush Dhanak: Exactly. Trudi Cowan: So if someone's recognized I probably need to work on their EQ, what should they focus on first, where do they start? Ush Dhanak: Yeah, so you can reach out to me because I'm amazing, Sarah Eifermann: We apparently like that stand here. Ush Dhanak: Yeah but I think the first thing is just research about what EQ is and see what you're interested in, you know, is it something you want to help in your career, is it something that you want to work on yourself personally. Is it around as we were talking about subconscious mind patterns shadow work to get an understanding of what area of your life you're going to work in, and then find someone to help you do that, I think, you know, as much as you can read a book on it. To be honest, don't apply it. All the books gonna do is give you information on what it is. So reach out to someone, anyone in society or reach out to anyone that you connect with and go, hey I want to be able to talk about how to do this, and someone will help you map out a plan. Trudi Cowan: Okay, and what are some of the services that you do to help people? Ush Dhanak: Yeah, so I do one-on-one coaching. So you don't have to be a leader or your business, just one-on-one coaching for someone that wants to really improve their emotional intelligence. We also work with businesses, and also entrepreneurs, that's some of the stuff that we do. Sarah Eifermann: Amazing, and I believe you've got a course online. Ush Dhanak: Yeah, no, it's actually a funny story. I got hit up on LinkedIn with this amazing guy called Elisha who we now work together. About six months ago and he's like Ush, you know I'm in San Diego, I'm in the EQ space and want to connect and see if we can collaborate and do something and we just literally hit it off our energies so like, yeah, so amazing together so we've created a program called the collective, which is spelled with an EQ in the middle. And it's a membership site so it's gonna launch on the first of October, and then the membership will kick off on the first of Jan, but what we're doing there is for a really really affordable monthly fee, you can access us as your personal coaches in a group setting environment. One of our goals was to make EQ available to anyone and everyone you know whether you're a student, whether you're retired and you just want to make an impact. So we're going to do some amazing things in that program so we haven't launched the link yet, but what you can do is go to eq.academy, and my details are there, hit me up, and we can make sure that you get a sort of a pre-launch so that you don't have FOMO. Okay. Sarah Eifermann: Nice perfect. We can also update our website as well. Once it goes live with the link for you too, Ush. Okay, so you got any questions, Trudi. No, you're good. Trudi Cowan: No, nothing. I'm still absorbing. Sarah Eifermann: So much today it is quite amusing to watch her face as it all processes. I have one more question about what age you should start learning EQ? Ush Dhanak: As a kid. Sarah Eifermann: But is there content available for children? Ush Dhanak: Yes, I actually coach kids, so, yeah 100% We do, from ages five onwards, so anyone can learn it, it's a learned behavior so you know I've got clients in their 70s and 80s and I've got kids who are five and six. so, you know, anytime at any moment. You can really embrace the learnings of raising your EQ. Trudi Cowan: Yeah, my daughter does a lot of wellness activities at school, and some of that would include some of this stuff. Yeah. Sarah Eifermann: And what about male or female, does it change depending on your gender? Ush Dhanak: No, that's a myth, isn't it? That women are more emotional and all this and that. But no, it really doesn't. I've, you know I've coached men and I've coached women and there's just yeah there's no consistency around either gender being better at EQ than the other. I think it's about your ability to embrace the learnings and go deep within yourself to go, what do I need to do and what areas do I need to work on. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah, amazing. Any tips that you would have for people listening today that are still a bit unsure about whether this is for them what they should do to move forward? Ush Dhanak: No I think it's 100% for everyone right, lack of EQ doesn't discriminate. Yeah, so it's in all of us and we can all improve it, and as I said is that sense of calm that you will really get, I think, you know, when I asked for feedback. After one on one sessions about how people are feeling and they do say it, they will feel. We just feel more aware, like through these a bit reflective now, you know, it's there, it is that sense of calm. Sarah Eifermann: As opposed to people with everything going on at the moment with COVID and lockdowns, and the heightened stress levels that working from home at every facet of this pandemic has created for us something positive that they could do with their time and energy would be to invest into EQ so they could address that a bit better. Ush Dhanak: Yeah, absolutely 100% And I think the collective is a really good way for anyone to dip their toe into it because you can just access that, you know, on a monthly basis and really learn from, we're going to have experts coming into that and do fireside chats, you know, around business and personal so. Sarah Eifermann: Yeah okay, fantastic, fantastic. Well, I appreciate you coming by today to chat with our audience. Ush Dhanak: Thank you. Sarah Eifermann: Lovely having you on board. Trudi do you have any questions? Trudi Cowan: No, no questions, I'm just going to go and Google how to test my EQ. Sarah Eifermann: Typically taunted over here. Next step of testing. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Trudi Cowan: It's been great having you. Ush Dhanak: Thank you, guys. Sarah Eifermann: Cheers, see you Ush. Bye Trudi Cowan: Bye
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