Episode 90: When do I call in the experts?
Apr 30, 2024
In this episode, Trudi Cowan and Sarah discuss when it's time to call in the experts for your business. They emphasize the importance of timing and recognizing when you need help. They mention various experts that businesses might need, such as lawyers, accountants, bookkeepers, finance brokers, insurance brokers, business coaches, marketing experts, social media experts, and website designers. They also discuss the need for proper planning, understanding your numbers, and being aware of the next stage of your business. They highlight the importance of not waiting too long to seek expert advice and the benefits of investing in your business.
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Just two industry experts (and guests) having a friendly chat and sharing our knowledge. We aim to raise your knowledge base and dis-spell any myths surrounding finance. tax and a range of other financial topics.
This is a safe space to ask questions and hear useful info on financial matters.
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DISCLAIMER- The information and material in this podcast, and supplementary and associated information available, is for general information only. It should not be taken as constituting professional advice from the podcast owners, and we recommend you seek independent suitable advice that is specific to your unique circumstances.
Podcast Transcript Available Here
Duration: 27:15
Trudi Cowan (00:12.994)
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Financial Fofu Podcast. I'm Trudi Cowan.
Sarah (00:20.854)
Hi Trudi, how are you?
Trudi Cowan (00:21.634)
Hahaha you're supposed to introduce yourself Sarah! Then joining me is my co-host Sarah
Sarah (00:24.758)
No, I'm not. We don't do this anymore. It's season five. Everybody knows who we are by now.
Trudi Cowan (00:31.426)
Well, hopefully we have some new listeners who don't know who we are.
Sarah (00:35.766)
They're in trouble if they don't by now.
Trudi Cowan (00:37.538)
Today we are going to have a bit of a chat about when exactly is it time to call in the experts. I mean every business has various advisors that they use to assist them in aspects of their business but sometimes it's difficult to know when is the right time to call them in and when have I gone too early and when have I left too late.
So we're going to have a little bit of a chat about some of the different experts you might use in your business and some of the things you might consider in terms of the timing of getting them in to help you.
Sarah (01:13.622)
Absolutely. So timing timing is everything I say this often to my clients and how do how do you know when? It's time for you to get help if you're asking yourself that question It's time if you think if you think oh, I don't know how to do that. Oh, what do I do? It's time to find an expert if you think I don't know about that baz statement whether that's the right amount that we're paying or I
Trudi Cowan (01:18.338)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (01:28.322)
It's time. Yep.
Trudi Cowan (01:34.69)
So.
Sarah (01:42.614)
something's not right about that, it's time to ask an expert. If you do not have cash in your business and you think you need a loan, right now, that instant, it's time to ask an expert. Don't wait. The longer you wait, the harder it is to fix the problem, especially when we're looking at lending. We'll get into that a little bit later.
Trudi Cowan (01:46.433)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (01:55.234)
Oh.
Trudi Cowan (02:00.962)
Yeah, yeah. But I think what's really important about that as well is ask the question. Getting in an expert doesn't mean that you have to spend thousands of dollars and have a long relationship with this particular expert. It may just mean that you need to go to them and have a one hour meeting with them, pay for the one hour meeting and just have a sounding board so that you can run through a bunch of questions that you have. You know, I often have phone calls with clients where they've literally.
put together a whole list of questions they want to ask me and we just sit down for an hour and go through those questions so that they can get the things answered that they're not unsure about.
Sarah (02:33.014)
Yeah.
Sarah (02:37.046)
Always, I find that there is analysis paralysis around picking up the phone to ask the question. You don't want to appear stupid or you think I should know the answer to this by now. I've been trading for five years, for example. And the long story short is, is that, you know what, take the stress off, pick up the phone. In December last year, I had a customer that had five nights of sleepless night before he rang me. And I went, yeah, I can do that.
Trudi Cowan (02:43.458)
Mmm.
Trudi Cowan (02:55.074)
Yeah, that was the question.
Sarah (03:05.238)
And it literally took me like an hour to fix his problem and provide him with a facility that he needed. And he was like, are you serious? I was like, yeah, you just need to upload your bank statements in here and we can get this sorted. You'll be fine. And he was like, I haven't slept for five nights. I was like, you should have called me in the morning the first one, shouldn't you? And that's what happens, right guys? So again, we did an episode in, I think it was season one.
Trudi Cowan (03:08.002)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (03:12.002)
Mmm.
Trudi Cowan (03:21.442)
Should I go? Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (03:30.562)
Mmm.
Sarah (03:31.254)
about what advisor type is right for you. And we said it then, like that was like three years ago, pick up the phone, ask a question, the faster you do it, the better off you'll be in business. So what type of experts are there Trudi?
Trudi Cowan (03:38.53)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (03:48.002)
Oh my God, what type of experts are there? Would be a quicker answer. There is an expert for just about everything really. But look, some of the common ones that we might talk about in business, we might be looking at lawyers, accountants, bookkeepers, finance brokers, insurance brokers, business coaches, marketing, social media type people. I'm sure there are more website designers.
Sarah (03:49.782)
Exactly. That's true.
Sarah (04:11.158)
The list goes on and on. I suppose it comes down to working out based on your niche, your field. What are the most appropriate advisors for your needs? And at what stage in your business journey do you need to call on them? For example, if you're a building construction based business and you need terms of trade to trade, I would suggest that calling in a lawyer that specializes in terms and conditions in terms of trade.
Trudi Cowan (04:15.746)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (04:38.69)
Yeah.
Sarah (04:40.118)
you'd need to do at the start of your journey because if you don't do it until midway through, you potentially have cost yourself thousands of dollars. And that is actually what happens in a lot of instances. It's only when that one customer burns you that you go, oh, I need to do this. Do it now.
Trudi Cowan (04:54.082)
Yeah. And I know a lot of us are very tempted to sort of piggyback off what somebody else has done or use a template that someone's given us. But when we're talking about legal documentation like that, you really need to customize specifically to your business and what you're doing and your work and your type of customers. And that's really difficult to do yourself if you don't have any legal background. So when we're talking about any type of legal document, I would always be saying,
Sarah (05:00.63)
Yes.
Trudi Cowan (05:23.138)
and talk to a lawyer to get them to do it for you.
Sarah (05:27.222)
Absolutely. Like I said, I have used templates in the past depending on needs, but I've got the knowledge to actually change them to work. I needed the template to give me the framework. I didn't need the template to give me the legal understanding. But then I have had other terms and conditions prepared for me by a lawyer. And then when it comes to credit licensing things, like we get a lot of our stuff that are prepared by their lawyers that are sent to us, like privacy policies, for example, and we amend them based on.
Trudi Cowan (05:37.57)
Hmm.
Sarah (05:56.726)
our own needs based on our business names and what lenders we use, for example. So it really depends on the circumstances. And I know that can be a little bit of a, I suppose, frivolous answer for people, but there are lawyers out there that will have templates that they will customize. And so their work's primarily done. So you only pay for their time to customize, which ends up being cheaper than, than if you were going to spend from scratch. But here's what I will say to you. And it's controversial.
Trudi Cowan (06:17.186)
Yeah, a bit cheaper. Yep.
Sarah (06:26.198)
And people don't like it when I say it, but if you don't have any money to invest in your business to get these things sorted, why are you in business? Yes, you can bootstrap things and bootstrapping got me to where I was, but it was much harder than if I had some cash put to side to put into these things. And so if people come to me now and ask me how much it costs to start a business, I'm going to tell you, you need two, two and a half K for your entity types. You need three to five K for brand identity.
Trudi Cowan (06:33.858)
Hmm.
Sarah (06:55.19)
and structures. You also need some legal advice. So you're going to need a couple of grand put aside for that. If you want a strategist or a coach to do your work, you're going to need a couple of grand for that. So you probably want to have 10 ,000 put aside and people go, wow, $10 ,000. But in the grand scheme of it, I get for a micro business, that's not an option. But if you're planning to turn over more than 150 to 200k, 10k to get your foundation set up right from the start is
Trudi Cowan (07:05.57)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (07:22.114)
is not that much.
Sarah (07:24.278)
the best money that you'll ever spend. And you know what? The business owners that I have that agree with that and take that on board and then they go do the work, they do my course or they engage in strategy, they engage in the right financial and accounting advice up front. They get their brand and identity done immediately. Guess what? They make more money faster with less stress.
Trudi Cowan (07:25.858)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (07:44.194)
Yeah, because they're set up and they're ready to go. They've got that structure in place and they've looked at that cost not as a cost, but as an investment in their business and in their growth and ability to grow.
Sarah (07:53.494)
Yep. And they come onto the scene and they arrowhead into the marketplace and they stand out from everybody else because they look more professional. It's controversial, but it's the truth guys. And some of you won't like hearing it, but you can take it as a positive and say, okay, maybe it's time I get my brand redone or maybe it's time I finally sit down with my accountant and talk about changing from sole trader to company.
Trudi Cowan (08:06.69)
Yeah.
Sarah (08:19.83)
Or maybe it's time I build up my business acumen skills and you invest in a business coach or strategist or you do our course, for example, and you build the skills that you need to have so that you also know when it's the right time to call in the experts, right? You've got to have some business skills.
Trudi Cowan (08:32.482)
Don't call it an expert. Now I think for some experts it's around I don't have the knowledge and it's also going to take me a long time to figure it out. So there's better for me to just pay and a perfect example of that for me is an insurance broker. I do not, I could not fathom spending the time going through a number of different insurance companies trying to find the right policy for me and who's going to give me the best price when I could just pay a broker.
Sarah (08:43.254)
Thank you.
Sarah (08:48.822)
Yes.
Sarah (09:00.662)
And it's a little bit more in depth now perhaps than it was say five years ago in terms of insurance because of all the nuances around who's paying out what on what you add cyber insurance into the mix. You add your professional liability scheme issues being an accountant into the mix like and sometimes you have to say my broker. So for me as a as a finance broker, my insurance broker can't do my mortgage broking insurance because they just
Trudi Cowan (09:04.194)
Hmm.
Trudi Cowan (09:09.474)
Yeah. Yep.
Trudi Cowan (09:25.858)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah (09:27.926)
the price that they'd be able to get, it's a waste of their time. I have to go through a group scheme policy for that. It's an individual policy, but it's designed specifically for mortgage brokers and you might be the same Trudi with your accountants. Exactly.
Trudi Cowan (09:39.17)
But they would know that and they can give you that advice to not worthwhile us doing this aspect. But I also find I have a lot of clients that don't know what type of insurance they need. Well, an insurance broker is going to be able to tell you that and they're going to be familiar with different types of businesses and what are the different types of insurances available that are going to be appropriate for you.
Sarah (09:49.334)
Yes.
Sarah (09:58.07)
Yes, including work cover guys, they're going to tell you like between, yeah, if you've got employees, you need work cover. That's how that rolls, right? That's not like, oh, my accountant never told me or my insurance broker never told me. If you have an employee, you need work cover.
Trudi Cowan (10:01.73)
including wet cover.
Trudi Cowan (10:06.37)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (10:14.402)
If you have a company in most states, you need to have work cover.
Sarah (10:16.822)
You know, yeah, yeah, it's pretty straightforward. So there are some other ones that we had listed, obviously marketing, social media. Like for me, the next issue that goes with when do you call in the experts is when is my time? It's sort of off the back of what you just said, but when is my time best spent doing something else? So I've always been a strong advocate for understanding how you set up a Google ad, for example, I can set up a Google ad.
but is my time best spent understanding the nuances of the itty gritty finer details of Google ads to put it together or should I engage an expert that does this every day and put it together in 15 minutes? You know, it's having a look at time versus the cost. And we did discuss this in poverty consciousness earlier in the season about having a good understanding of business, right? And what that person is offering you as a service. And then also recognizing that I can make more money.
Trudi Cowan (10:53.794)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (11:00.354)
Yes.
Trudi Cowan (11:04.194)
Mmm, we did.
Sarah (11:15.254)
consulting or doing some lending than I can running a Google ad. So I'm going to pay somebody to run a Google ad to bring the business in and then I'm going to get my return on the customers that are generated from that advertising. And so when do I call in the experts is very specific to your own skill set and your niche as well. And understanding that sometimes you can't do everything.
Trudi Cowan (11:19.362)
Yeah.
Trudi Cowan (11:38.338)
And I often have the conversation with clients around that time situation of, well, what do you do in a day? And of those tasks, which tasks do you actually need to be doing? And which tasks could you outsource to someone who would probably do a better job of it because they're an expert in that space.
Sarah (11:56.278)
And that's business efficiency that comes from business acumen. So being able to look at your business and say, this is not working. And these are the reasons why, and how do we fix it? When do I call it an expert?
Trudi Cowan (12:03.586)
Yeah. Yeah.
Now an interesting one I find is when do I get into bookkeeper? Because for a lot of people they go, well, I can do it myself. So why would I pay someone to do it? And maybe at a certain stage of your business, yes, you can. And that's appropriate. But bookkeeping could be quite time consuming if it's not something that you are an expert in and that you're really familiar with the ins and outs of. It can also be quite complex as your business grows or if you've got particular intricacies involved in how your bookkeeping works, if you've got...
Sarah (12:13.91)
Yep. You can. You can.
Trudi Cowan (12:35.65)
for an exchange or if you're importing goods and the GST is paid at import and there's a few weird things going on in your books, it can start getting quite complicated. So it can be a time factor for some, but it's also.
Sarah (12:45.078)
It can also be prob... I was gonna say it can be problematic as well though if you don't have the knowledge that you need to have of bookkeeping. Well it's not it's not just skill set but it's like the bookkeeping... they're not regulations Trudi what are they? They're standards. They're like the standards for how you need to actually record your books especially based on ATO... yeah regulations.
Trudi Cowan (12:51.041)
Yep. Mmm.
Trudi Cowan (13:04.546)
and also the rules around GST, which are often very easily not understood. Yep.
Sarah (13:10.23)
Because you can get it wrong and you can spend hours doing what you think is the right thing only to find out at the end of the year.
Trudi Cowan (13:16.802)
Yeah. And look, there are some circumstances that if you are doing it wrong, you then need to pay someone to fix it for you. And often the fix takes longer than if we had done it ourselves in the first place. Right? So you often end up spending more money fixing the mistakes than if they, you know, you just outsourced the bookkeeping in the first place. So if you're not GST registered, totally fine, go and do your bookkeeping. But if you are, I would be seriously considering
Sarah (13:24.342)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah (13:29.142)
first place.
Sarah (13:40.47)
and paid for it.
Trudi Cowan (13:45.922)
One, is it my time well spent doing it myself? And two, do I actually have the knowledge to be doing it correctly?
Sarah (13:56.598)
I mean, I rang you the other day about something that I actually understood very well, but it was so out of left field for what we had to do for this reimbursement that even you, you and I sat there going, is it no GST? It's not no GST. Is it GST free? It's GST exempt, which what can I code it as? We had to work through it. And like, what I'm getting at is that.
Trudi Cowan (14:11.65)
Yeah, we sort of had to sit and work through the rules and win.
Sarah (14:19.958)
I have an expert on hand that I ring and ask questions to for these reasons because I could have put it through my books and gone, yes, she'll be right. You can fix it later or I can fix it right then and there and know that it's resolved and move on. And that is super efficient when it comes to not having to deal with it again later. And I suppose the similar themes that are coming through today, guys, is don't wait. One of the things that I have been noticing this year specifically, and as the market is sliding, I mean,
Trudi Cowan (14:21.09)
Yeah.
Sarah (14:49.686)
Broken records over here, Trudi and I talking about how this was coming and you had to be prepared and you had to build new relationships and you had to create new income streams and stay on top of things is about lending. I'm getting a lot of inquiries for working capital or ATO, debt repayment, refinancing and people are waiting until it's too late. So they wait until three to six months after they needed the finance. So we opened this episode with if you think you need help.
Trudi Cowan (14:51.202)
Yep.
Trudi Cowan (15:05.346)
Yeah, seeing a lot of them.
Sarah (15:19.286)
ask them for a reason. And in a lot of instances, I could have helped those people if they had come to me three months earlier when their turnover was still decent and they had track record of that. Now that they've got a non -existent turnover, I can't get them financed.
Trudi Cowan (15:32.098)
Yeah. And the reality is if you had been watching your numbers, you would have seen that decline and you would have seen that things were slowing. And that's the point in time to go to you and say, Sarah, can we just get an overdraft or can we just get some sort of facility that helps with my cashflow a little bit so that if I do need it, I've got that cash available. Doesn't mean you have to spend the money straight away, but at least it gives you that comfort that if things keep declining as you're expecting, you've got a bit of a backup plan.
Sarah (15:51.573)
Yeah.
Sarah (16:00.758)
And look, the other thing in this particular space to be aware of is that people balk at the interest rate because they're comparing it to a home loan. This is not home loan finance. This is short term, high risk, working capital, working capital, working capital debt finance for the purposes of propping up your business, which means it's not a long term solution. It needs to be a short term solution and you need to have an exit strategy.
Trudi Cowan (16:16.354)
Hahaha.
Sarah (16:28.47)
Otherwise, all you're going to find, regardless of whether it's a bank overdraft at say a 14 % or a second tier funder at 24%. And yes, 24 % is normal guys. And guess what? 24 % on $100 ,000. Yes, would be 24K for the year, but with the right facility, you only use it for the days that you need it. So you actually only paying $66 a day on a facility like that.
Trudi Cowan (16:51.202)
Yeah.
Sarah (16:58.134)
You need it for a week to get you through till your next job kicks in. Well, that times seven gives you $460 bill for the whole year then. So it's all about the theory of how you view these things. And had you called me when you thought you might have needed finance, I would have walked you through that. Now it's too late.
Trudi Cowan (17:14.498)
Yeah, and don't forget that the ATO charges interest as well. So not paying your tax is not an interest -free loan. The rates on that are at the moment sitting around 11 and 12%. So there's still quite a bit of interest that you are paying regardless.
Sarah (17:19.126)
Yeah.
Hehehehe
Sarah (17:28.918)
Yeah, and it's still cheaper than anything I can get you in the current marketplace if a lender will fund tax debt. Right? So I suppose, look, we could go on and on about this. It's kind of like a fun topic that Trudi and I discussed from time to time. Why didn't that client call me earlier? Just come on. But in reality, if your gut is telling you it's time, it's time. If your gut is also telling you it's time for a second opinion, it's time.
Trudi Cowan (17:41.538)
I'm sorry.
Trudi Cowan (17:45.186)
Mm, yes.
Sarah (17:57.878)
Perhaps sometimes the advisors that you've had that you took on board when you started your business no longer meet your needs. Perhaps they don't communicate in the way that you need. Perhaps you have questions that are just left unanswered or they're not prompt enough in replying. Like if you've contacted your accountant and it's been four weeks and you haven't had a reply, that's actually not acceptable. And so perhaps it's time for you to actually seek a second opinion and or replacement. I think that's the right word. A new...
Trudi Cowan (18:17.09)
It's too low.
Sarah (18:26.326)
advisor in that category to get on top of that. So where do you find the right advisor then?
Trudi Cowan (18:32.322)
Ask your business colleagues who may have referrals or recommendations they can send you. Ask in some of your local groups, whether it be a Facebook group or a business networking group that you're a part of. Come and ask us. We have quite a wide group of people that we can refer to and we don't just have one lawyer that we refer to and one finance group. We have lots of different people that we can refer to just depending on what's most appropriate for your particular...
Sarah (18:36.662)
Yes.
Sarah (18:47.862)
Ask us, we've got hate.
Sarah (18:54.23)
No, no, no.
Sarah (19:01.558)
Yeah. And the thing is, is that exactly. And I think the thing to also remember is that we've vetted these referral sources as well. Like we stake our reputations on our introductions. And obviously we can't control the outcomes based on individual personalities, as you've just said, but the people that we refer to are like us. They communicate, they're prompt in reply, they are ethical, they care, they want to help you. Yes, they charge because...
Trudi Cowan (19:01.634)
Circumstances don't even personally fit sometimes.
Sarah (19:30.774)
can't eat the air and they're not the cheapest in the marketplace, we know that, but they will do what they said they would do when they said they would do it and you will get an outcome that's beneficial as a result. So.
Trudi Cowan (19:42.37)
I think a big key to all of this and knowing when to call in the experts is that you have to really be knowing what's going on in your business. You need to be on top of where are your numbers at and what's profitability doing, what's your cash flow doing, what is the next stage of my business and what am I doing to get to that next stage. If you're not doing this sort of planning within your business, then you're probably not going to have an awareness that you need that expert assistance. And if you want your business to continue to grow and be successful.
Sarah (20:06.134)
Yes.
Trudi Cowan (20:11.298)
And that means different things to different people, but you still need to be aware of all these different things in order to understand what the next stage is for you and which experts you need to come in and help you to get to that stage and to keep you going.
Sarah (20:14.422)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah (20:23.798)
Yeah. I had a conversation last night with a truckie who sold here, big section of his business. He used to service the whole North coast, Aldi's, Woolworth's and Coles. I had 16 trucks and he had a heart attack and just decided I can't do this anymore. Like I was driving to Brisbane, you know, texting my drivers at 1am and then one job changes its schedule and it throws out everything else and you have to start again. And he said, yeah, I didn't realise how long it would take us.
Trudi Cowan (20:47.266)
everything.
Sarah (20:53.238)
not just to sell, but we would have to stay on board for 10 plus months to manage the transition and the relationship because the people that have bought our business bought the relationship, but then they were going to lose the relationships if we weren't there because...
Trudi Cowan (20:56.194)
Mmm.
Trudi Cowan (21:05.506)
Yeah they need you to continue that for a bit till they get familiar.
Sarah (21:09.59)
And had that business had some succession planning done over the previous five years, all the knowledge was in his head, nothing, old school trucking, right? Nothing was written down. Everything, if he wrote it down, was on a book, not in the computer system. And so had there been some succession planning there and some thought process through as to what they were trying to achieve, albeit it was sped up by his heart attack, he probably would have kept working had he not, but things would have been very different for them and they may have been able to retire much faster.
if there had been some systems and processes and some planning around where they're at. So it's not always about growing and getting bigger. Sometimes it's downsizing as well and finding out the right solution. And it's not always when things are tough. Sometimes you call in the experts when things are going really well, but you just don't know how to get to the next step.
Trudi Cowan (21:45.538)
Yep.
Trudi Cowan (21:56.29)
Yeah. How do I manage that? How do I manage the cashflow out of my business? How do I manage not paying too much tax? Take on new staff. That's another one we haven't got on there. HR expert, if you've got lots of employees, then you might be needing to outsource some of your HR experts. So there's so many different people out there that can help and support your business.
Sarah (22:03.926)
Yes. Yes.
Sarah (22:12.278)
You will because you need contracts. Yes, you need employment contracts guys. You got employees, work cover and employment contracts, go hand in hand. So HR experts are important. And I suppose on that note, I would prefer people see a HR lawyer for their employment contracts over a HR expert. They have different regulations and rules depending on states. And I think to fully protect you, you are best.
Trudi Cowan (22:19.298)
Yes, please have them.
Sarah (22:39.03)
but having your employment contracts done by an employment lawyer rather than just a HR specialist.
Trudi Cowan (22:44.386)
But I think the key is none of these advisors consider you ringing us and asking us stupid questions. We don't consider them stupid questions. If it's an important question to you, then it's an important question, not a stupid one. And we're here to help and get you through those questions, give you the right answers so that you can move forward.
Sarah (22:57.334)
Yep.
Sarah (23:01.782)
So you call in the experts the moment you think you might need to right then. That's when you make the call guys. And so we will, we will leave it there for today. If you have any questions or would like a referral to an expert, send us a DM on our socials, send us an email. We have a million different ways that you can get in touch with us. Pretty sure you can even ask a question now on Spotify.
Trudi Cowan (23:05.442)
Yeah. Yeah, pick up the phone.
Trudi Cowan (23:14.37)
Yeah, definitely.
Sarah (23:27.734)
they've upgraded that platform. So lots of things are changing. There's definitely no excuse for not being able to contact us. In the meantime, have a fantastic week. We'll be back in touch in two weeks time.
Trudi Cowan (23:28.002)
Okay.
Trudi Cowan (23:33.346)
Nah.
Trudi Cowan (23:38.402)
Thanks everyone.